I had a very interesting conversation today at work about poker. There are so many people out there that suggest or truly believe that there isn’t any skill involved in poker…just dumb luck. I invite everyone who believes this to come play a fews sessions of poker at my house, and we’ll see how much skill it takes to win!
I read an interesting article today and I couldn’t give a better argument if I tried, so I’ll just give a few of the main points from the article and let you read the whole thing if you are interested.
The biggest distinction between poker and gambling is that in pretty much all gambling, you are playing against the house.
In poker, the house has no interest in the outcome, and is an impartial provider of services-for-a-fee, a forum for the players to compete equally against each other.
Another major difference between poker and gambling is that the rules of poker accord every player a statistically equal chance to win, but the rules of gambling games all give the house a definite advantage against the player, which over time is inexorable and inevitable. In essence, poker is fair, gambling is not.
Poker is a game of skill. It is a contest of abilities, more akin to bridge or chess than it is to gambling, in that more-talented players will prevail against less-talented players. Chance can and will affect short-term results, but skill separates winners from losers over time.
You?ll never get to play a pickup game against Michael Jordan or a round of golf against Tiger, or tear up the track against Matt Kenseth, but you can plop your buy-in down and take on Doyle Brunson or Howard Lederer.
46 Comments
good question…i think it really depends on a couple of things….first off, if you are an beginning player you will get beat by a more experienced player if you dont watch yourself. Poker is a game of skill, but on the other hand anybody can get the cards. An expert poker player won’t beat a beginner if the beginner is getting good cards. This could be the other side of the arguement, but then again…will the beginner have the guts to call when the expert bets big or goes all in???
In the short term anyone can win, but in the long run, the player with skills will win every time. Poker is not about a single session, it’s about results over a period of time. Anyone can get a good run of cards and come out ahead in a session, but it takes skill to do this consistently.
See dawg I always bring the interesting conversations at work. Anyways..
I have to say that both skills and luck kind of mingle together. You can have the best skills in the world and no good luck the result might well be losing; it also works the other way around. But from my limited knowledge about poker, I think you need strategies as well as skills to win. Of course add to that LUCK. To sum it up; You need both to win on consistent bases. BTW I have my own saying to this. ?People that have it call it skills and people that lack it call it luck” By Mo
That’s the quote of the day for ya.
During a session/sitting, luck can be and is a factor. I’ll agree with that, but we do not pay attention to single sessions in poker, because everyone can and will have an off night. If you have the skills, you will be able to outplay (in the long run) a player who simply relies on luck to win. Think of it as in other sports…you may be able to beat Michael Jordan in a game of one-on-one, but if you play enough games, you will never be ahead in the overall series.
Well Jere..
poker is also about maximising your winning and minimising your losses.. so a experienced poker player will most definitely muck his hands..and the inexperienced player will probably call you down (because of pot – commitement)
POKER IS SKILL. Believe me, I didn’t think so at first. BUT NOW I KNOW. YOU GOT TO HAVE DA SKILLZ, SON
There is an easy way to tell:
If a sport is based on skill, a professional player will always beat an amateur in a full game i.e. you will never beat jordan in a full game of basketball, tiger woods over 18 holes or federer in 5 sets. agreed?
If the game was whoever could get a basketball in from half way, you could beat jordan – because your moving more into the realms of luck than skill (he has a better chance of getting it, but you could get it in first shot…).
This brings me to my point: The ‘main’ or ‘full’ game of poker is no limit texas holdem tourney. A professional play will NOT always beat an amateur player. Therefore for this reason, while I agree skill plays a part in poker I am of the opinion that…
…poker is OVER 50% luck keeping it firmly under the title of ‘gambling’ and not ‘sport’. I am constantly reminded of this whenever an amateur player wins the WSOP (2004 and 2005 i think?) or an absolute beginner busts my all-in pre-flop aces with 72 offsuit.
I’m sorry, but Poker ist just luck, play some Limit Hold Em and you get Id*ots how call a Board with A-A-K and win with two pair AA-22 or sometig else, yes PURE SKILL!
If poker were over 50% luck, then it would stand to reason that an amateur would stand as much of a chance of winning the WSOP championship as a professional. Don’t forget that Chris Moneymaker wasn’t exactly an amateur, because he won his seat from an online poker website (which means he was far from being an amateur). If I were to teach the basics to a person who didn’t know how to play Texas Hold’em, I can guarantee you that they wouldn’t stand a chance in hell at the WSOP championships. In fact, we could have 50% of the entrants be true amateurs (of the kind I just described), and 50% be professionals, and the amateurs would not ever win…. ever.
It’s 90 percent luck and 10 percent playing by the basic rules of the game and some people are born luckier than others. you can lose with a pair of aces to a 7-2 even if you played those aces right. The guy who is lucky will win with the 7-2 when it counts. You could flop a trips and yet he can still win with a gut shot draw or runner runner because he’s lucky. And lucky people just have good timing.
some people are lucky in relationships others lucky in finance, and others lucky in poker or the games of chance.
That’s an interesting perspective, and I think that it also depends on what the stakes are. I submit that if we are all playing in a play-money game, or micro stakes game, players will take more chances, and therefore get lucky more often. If we are playing in a higher stakes game, or when the low-stakes games get toward the final players, players tend to play more “correctly”. That is, they will “gamble” less, and focus more on playing the odds… which is what poker represents for the serious players. We could all sit down, and play every hand we were dealt; the better hands with better odds would win more often (that’s why they are better hands.) But that would defeat the purpose of betting. Players who depend on luck will not get very far very often. Players that play the odds, and rely on their skill will win much more often over time. That is why I maintain that poker is more about skill than luck.
Hello all,
Firstly, I wish to state my experience with poker so as to show that I do know what I am talking about. I am 19 years old and have been playing online for a year and a half. I began @ $50 and am now at $7436. I have played over 100 thousand hands (a computer program of mine keeps track of every single one) and as such have quite alot of experience (# of hands is far more important than years). One of my closest friends is 20 years old and is currently going to university. He has been playing poker as his only source of income for over 2 years now. He takes it very seriously and reads/studies it for about 2-3 hours a day. On top of that he plays and gets in roughly 30,000 hands a month. He began with less than $100 and is now over $100,000 bankroll, and is going to FOR SURE make in excess of $120,000 this year.
I can honestly say that poker is a game of skill AND luck. However, that being said, if played over the long term the skill will dominate as it is FAR more prevalent than the luck. I like to think of it in terms of golf… if I were to play Tiger Woods for 18 holes, he would surely win as he is an amazing golfer. However, if I were to play him on one hole I could very well beat him. If it were a par 3 I could fluke out and hit a hole-in-one and thus I would probably beat him as he would most likely not. Does this mean golf isn’t a game of skill because an amateur beat him? Of course not, but poker is very similar to this. I pose this question, if poker is a game of skill, how can the top players consistently make money, year after year after year? Also, above someone mentioned two amateurs players winning the main World Series Of Poker event. They were amateurs only in that they had not played in a big live tournament before, however they knew phenomenal amounts of poker. THe two players are Chris Moneymaker (2004 Champ), and Greg Raymer (2005 Champ). Raymer was in the middle of publishing a book on the subject of poker while in the tournament! One will also notice that the same 50 people or so CONSISTENTLY make it far enough into tournaments to make money.
If one also looks at the top poker players on the circuit, I think you will be quite surprised at the intelligence of the individuals. Surely if it is a game of luck than we would see plenty “average joes” in there. However, MANY poker players were former MASTERS of chess and backgammon, 2 games that I certainly hope everyone feels are games of skill.
If one is unsure whether or not it is a game of luck or skill all they must do is simply read about it just a little bit more. Also, regarding peoples comments on losing with A-A (the best pre-flop hand in Hold’em) against 7-2 (worst preflop hand in Hold’em), that is simply a think called VARIANCE! A-A will lose to 7-2 roughly 12.5% of the time if all money is in pre-flop! While definitely small, it is still a considerable chance! In my opinion, people who think mathematically and in a very logical/mechanical manner, are those who tend to believe that poker is a game of skill. Those perhaps less educated in those areas may perhaps thing it is more luck. I think that is why you will find the majority of pro poker players coming from fields such as engineering, stock brokers, physicists, mathematicians. This is not a word a lie, and if you would just take a second and google perhaps any 5 pro poker players you know of, then just read their previous professions, and I feel you too will find this.
Nice talkin, hope I’ve answered some questions!
I believe in the 80/20 rule; 20 percent skill, 80 percent luck. Ive been playing poker for just under a year, and i study it very closely. last game i played i hit top 2 pair on the flop, and my friend was just bluffing super agressively. The flop was completely rainbowed(a card of each suit), but he ended up winning most of my money since he got a back door flush. this proves that poker is mostly luck. Even Sammy farha or brunson, chan who are pros at the game would still make the same calls as i did during that hand. There is also some skill in the game, knowing when to fold, and traping an agressive player and what not. I could beat doyle brunson probally 1 out of 5 rounds, but beating mike tyson at boxing would never happen out of 10000 rounds. pokers gambling, not pure skill like boxing or most sports
In my opinion poker is a game of both skill and luck (gosh! :p) When the skill of the players increases, the luck part decreases. This is due to the fact that skilled players do not wish to gamble. They trust on their skills in order to win the game. A player that is less skilled however, will try to win more by gambling. One example: I am dealt Ace Ace preflop. I know I am not that good of a player to slowplay those aces well. Thus, I try and move all-in preflop. I know I decrease the game to a coinflip this way, but, I also know that the coin is in my favourite (80% or more). When playing with amateurs you will quite often find people betting with much smaller chances. So, they effectively turn the game into a game of chance. Yes, it is actually possible to make it a game of luck if you wish. Amateurs do this all the time. That is why they do often beat the pro’s as they get lucky sometimes.
Im a very experienced poker player and i can say for a fact that its 50/50 luck and skill. Ive read all the great books harrington, sklansky and many more. First lets look at some basic facts. You cant control what cards you are delt, how can anyone say poker is majority skill when somedays in poker you get delt crap all day and other days you get great cards all day. Second and most important BAD BEATS happen all the time. Third the u.s government declares poker a game of luck not skill feel free to look this up. To the guy above who turned 50 into 7000 and your friend 100 into a 100,000 YOUR A PATHETIC FUCKING LYING LOSER. ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO TURN 100 INTO 100000 GET A LIFE YOU FUCKING LOSER HAHAHAHA.
Good one! You called their bullshit! Even the most skillfully played poker game (kn0ck p0ker) I would consider to be approx. 45% skill and 55% luck. I have been playing “holDUM” for almost 5 years now and get bad beats almost on a regular basis. This hold’em variant is way overrated.
ha ha yeah I agree. THere is no way I believe that guy either!
I have been laying poker now for almost 3 years the last year and a half a great deal online. I have won a few local live play tournaments but even still online I only play micro stakes as I have very little money.
Sure overall I have woon a few dollars from these sites more than I have deposited, but no where near as much as I feel my skill and strategy would deserve. Why? Because I almost always start to suck out in the most horrendus ways imagineable, with backdoor flushes beating my set on a rainbow flop and the like. It’s sick the shit thats happened to me online!
I feel far more confident in live play where I feel my Ak that hits the flop will hold up 9 times out of 10 not suck out 90% of the time like it does online!
So that guy above is talking utter drivel. There is no way any site would let you profit like that, no matter how good you think your plays are. I seriously do not trust online poker either and think that in some way it is rigged.
So no f way could anyone depositing that small ammount profit like that. Complete crap! The sites put a limit on how much you can win, that is why so many bad beats start flying against you after a good run. They will just never let you get too far ahead it is as simple as that!
Whoever says that they can make a living playing no limit texas hold’em is obviously lying. If you want to be a great player you have to be a champion at hold’em omaha stud razz pan chinese and all the games pot limit, limit and no limit as well as hi/lo and 8 or better. I can tell you easily who the best all around player is….. in ten years. It is the absolute hardest way to make a living and is like sex, everybody thinks there the best, but most people can’t get the job done.
Ha, Davis is absolutely right except he meant to say its the hardest way to make an easy living. All pros will tell you the same thing as Davis and I wouldnt be surprised if he is one bcuz hes not pretending hes done a bunch, bcuz he dosnt need to
Yeh Davis is right, Davis can you teach me the game?
Davis, you took that out of my book! See you at the WSOP buddy try and get to my 11th.
Anything beyond knowing the basic rules of the game is luck. Any hand can be cracked, no matter how well you play it. In my opion, any game that involves any luck at all, is all luck. You can get busted from a tournament from a single unlucky hand. No matter how well you played, or how good you are. One unlucky moment, you are gone. If you can get busted from one unlucky hand, then all of poker might as well be considered luck. There are no “lucky” shots in basketball, or “lucky” hits in baseball, etc… All those other sports are based on skill.
Anything beyond knowing the basic rules of the game is luck. Any hand can be cracked, no matter how well you play it. In my opion, any game that involves any luck at all, is all luck. You can get busted from a tournament from a single unlucky hand. No matter how well you played, or how good you are. One unlucky moment, you are gone. If you can get busted from one unlucky hand, then all of poker might as well be considered luck. There are no “lucky” shots in basketball, or “lucky” hits in baseball, etc… All those other sports are based on skill. sdf
Luck is as much a part of life as gravity and sunlight. A simple and undeniable example is birth. A person cannot control how they’re born, what family they’re born into, and what their physical and mental attributes are. A person born into a rich or poor family is lucky and unlucky, respectively. With that said, a person who is on the receiving end of a bad beat when they have the best of it could be deemed unlucky by the majority. The mathematician will tell you that this is variance rearing it’s ugly head. The superstitious person will tell you that you shouldn’t have stacked your chips in this manner and you were in the wrong chair and this particular dealer is killing the table and what have you. The spiritual person will tell you that you deserved it because you did something previously and it’s just karma rolling around (sounds kind of like variance). Everybody’s got their explanation. Pick a number and get in line.
Poker players say that poker is about the long run… How long is that? Truth is, that’s as long as the game of poker is played. And as long as you’re alive playing the game. Us people, though, we come in during those times when the numbers go either way. Imagine one guy sitting at a table and he’s been playing long hours on end. He’s been getting all the right cards and the numbers have been working out “the way they should”. Now, he leaves and the next Joe takes his seat. Right off the bat he gets a bad beat. Whoa, what happend? That seat was hot, right? Well, I guess the other player was just lucky and this new guy must be the personification of bad luck. What changed? Besides the players, nothing. The numbers all add up in the end, but what was different was the agents (people) of those statistical situations. People are variables in the equation, only, we feel. It’s like that futuristic movie with a Utopian society where nobody feels emotion (what was the name?). Picture those folks playing poker and taking beats left, right, and centre. It wouldn’t phase them one bit; tilt wouldn’t exist.
There’s a saying that “luck is probability made personal.” You’re damn right it’s personal! “Why me” is a common cry that comes to mind. Cold, hard numbers don’t have feelings. Statistics aren’t favouritist towards certain people. Neither is gravity, except for, maybe, SUPERMAN. The arguments for and against luck are parallel to the arguments for and against God’s existence. How can you prove it, or disprove it? Anecdotal evidence isn’t going to cut it. You could know some poor guy as the unluckiest schmuck, however, he simply may be making all the wrong moves – that usually coincides with “at the wrong times. Luck is not tangible. You only feel it i.e., it’s in our heads.
My best guess at luck is that it’s a set, string, or series of variables that cumulate in and upto an event. Recall the time(s) you attended or cancelled a plan and were fortunate or unforunate enough to face or avoid some sort of incident, be it a personal (drama with an ex), financial (losing your wallet), legal (getting into a fight and being arrested), or a health (binge drinking and hung over all day) scenario… Yup, we’ve all been there. Somewhere there, at least.
Poker is a game of skill in which there is a greater element of chance than in other games of skill where luck is less of a deciding factor. Think of pool (billiards). Every single break of the rack results in a random dispersing of the balls. Yes, a pro could theoretically pocket at least one ball every single time with the proper technique, but there’s that chance that she or he might not. And there is no control over how the balls are spread across the table.
The point is that luck is an integral part of, not only poker, but LIFE itself.
Good luck at the tables!
There is one thing which is contradicting the affirmation poker is a game of skill:
each long run is made by short runs; if a pro got unlucky in the short run he can ge unlucky in the long run too; there is no better prove a pro player is a skilled player but the long run luck itself, which then remove the skill.
Mathematics works the same, every player get same cards as well, but there is a difference in getting the right cards at the right time or getting the right cards in the wrong moment—you might miss AA for about 2 hours then when you finally got it the only guy which did not preflop fold is the BB guy which will fold any bet you put; you loose allin with trips against flush then you win 2 allins with trips against weaker cards but the amount of money you win last 2 times will be much less then the allin you was loosing; this is making the affirmation that all players got the same luck irrelevant.
If you have a casino and want to make as many as possible players play the game the only way you can do this is by saying that poker is a game of skill and luck; if you remove 1 from the ecuation you half the number of players; it looks like a convenient way to fool all people play the game; some say casinos don’t win any money from poker…not if they have their (undetected) players on the tables…which let much space for interpretation then…making poker even worst (a made up game), and I observed one interesting thing about it (speaking about the honestity of poker houses): if you will try to make as many preflop allins as possible with good cards, if you loose go to higher stakes, you loose go to even higher stakes (to cover the losses and earn money, because mathematical theory says sooner or later you must win one allin) you might have the surprise loosing 20 allins one by one with AKs suited, AAs, QQs etc, try it online for example.
If I usually play X$ tables I make about 4-6 more money in about 2-3 weeks, playing 2-3 hours daily; then ALWAYS will have a bad day (maximum 2 days) then I will loose 3-4-6x money on the table with trips against trips, flush against stronger flush, and so on, 6 8 times in a row; this way the whole longrun winnings go away, you might be a longrun good player but the shortrun sessions are enough to f* your longrun winnings, this sounds more like “let’s get some money from that guy now, he had enough” then a normal thing.
60% luck, 40% skill. It’s still mostly luck, since the long term is too long for anyone to experience. In events like the WSOP, the pro’s are the ones who can outplay people, be card dead and still take down pots, while having a decent run of luck. The amateurs like Yang, Gold, and Moneymaker have to rely on mainly luck.
I kind a love poker, but still I have to say that I think poker is more luck than skill. If two equally talented players play against each others, the luckier will win – always. And this luck zone is much wider than in sports etc. Like if you know the basic strategies (there isn’t such complicated strategies in poker) and your opponent also knows those, then luck is quite a big factor.
I ones saw online player who made all-inn’s something like 15 – 25 minutes straight (every hand) and won something like 85 % of those hands. But that was miracle, that’s not why I think poker is more luck than skill.
I insist that poker is more about skills than luck.
First, it is not only about knowing the basic rules. It is also about ability to read people’s minds through their gestures, their patterns of betting…..etc.
Second, if luck plays a bigger role than skills, how could you explain the consistent performance of poker Hall of Famers like Doyle, Chan, Stu etc ???. Doyle has been playing poker for over 50 years and still keeps winning.
A lot of these veterans play pokers as their only career.
Johnny Chan got wife and kids in Las Vegas and all he does is playing pokers. There is no way anyone can get lucky for many many years. This emperical evidence shows that skills play a bigger role than luck in Poker.
Joe said “This emperical evidence shows that skills play a bigger role than luck in Poker”
When it is a beginner player against an experienced player it is about skill but when there are two good poker players the game turn to be about luck
I am talking about online poker
Chan and other champs are not online poker champs I guess and there might be different rules
But if you play poker 4 many years you usually make money mostly because the newer players and they are a lot!
It’s not like you train on this, I train on this and the most skilled player here win, but it is more like comparing to golf or whatever imagine you are an average player and I just played this game yesterday for the first time..of course you will win but it is not about skill;
experienced player against unexperienced player is not really a skill game
in fact: “When it is a beginner player against an experienced player it is about skill” should be “When it is a beginner player against an experienced player it looks to be about skill”
I have to say after playing online for a year and playing general poker for 4 years that poker is 60% luck and 40% skill for most players until they reach the professional stage where the skill level matters less since all other players are professionals and all play with odds.
Also I would say that to win the WSOP you would need more luck than skill, but to make the money consistently in every 2-3 WSOP would take skill. I would say small tournaments require more skill to win than 7k+ entrants one.
To me poker depends more on luck than skill.
The poker professionists earn money from the less experienced.
This “snippet” from the article is quite hilarious, they prove no point at all.
For example, replace the term “poker” with “coin flipping” into the article. The author would make the point that if a casino provided a means for “coin flipping” and for participants to bet on the outcome that it was skill since each player has the same chance of winning.
Yet in reality, a coin flip is 100% luck and no skill, so the author makes no point at all.
Yes, a coin flips outcome is completely random. The point is that if you were flipping coins against a casino they would only pay you something like .9 to 1 in other words you’d put down 10$ on heads and when you win they pay you 9$. So yes you can win but if you play long enough say 10000 flips the head verses tail ratio is going to be around 5,000 5,000 which means that you,ve wagered 100,000 and won 90,000 for a net loss of 10,000. Does that mean the casino got lucky against you? No. The casino had a mathematical edge. All casino games are set up with a form of this edge against you.
In poker the casino doesnt care who wins because the money comes from the players. When you win it comes out of another players pocket. The casino takes a small portion of the pot which is called a “rake”. so essentially you’er just renting the seat from them. In poker you can be the “HOUSE” by making common sense decisions when others are making bad decisions. Or really good decisions when others are making good decisions. If you understand odds you would know how much you can call when your on the draw and still make money overtime. conversely if your the bettor you make the odds incorrect for draws and people will still call. They do get lucky a certain percentage of the time but when they lose you make that money back plus more when you bet correctly. This is just the most simple example of how poker does require skill. We all get the same cards over time. It becomes a waging war after that. Can you really say that people cannot make decisions that are essentially like giving money away at the table. I know they do. I have been beating poker for 3 years now. I have friends that have been beating the game for years. I know i make money just from the stupid stuff people do. Some people expose there cards every hand. I know it is a luck game but skill is the reason I have made money overtime. Poker is without a doubt a skill game. Tell me how there are professional poker players and no professional roulette players. Tell me ive been lucky for three years. Tell my friends they are lucky. Look at a player like Negreneaus winnings year in and year out. Tell me how You see a lot of the same players at final tables.
Im about sick of this game. Ill be 100 percent honest with you. I am a good poker player, and I get sucked out on more than Ron Jeremy. Tonight, For instance, I had ace king, vs. Ace six, got beat…Figuring I am good 2 out of 3 times with ace king, (verse an ace with a lower kicker) the next time I got it, I ended up pre flop all in vs ace 7 (which was beautiful a play by my opponent, who of course claimed it wasnt luck to hit 2 running spades)…Lost again. Poker is only a skill game to an extent, the instinct of knowing when you should fold, and when you shouldnt. And that is a skill, but After that, bullshit, there is no skill involved. Professional poker players are LUCKY. Lucky enough to have there opponents miss their draws, or lucky enough to hit there draws. You have no control over what cards hit the table. When I play a sport (not poker, vs a fat guy who is thinking hey i might hit a 9 for this gutshot straight draw, which for some odd reason seems to crack me everytime) I am in total control, and I guess the only scenario that could compare poker, to a sport like baseball. Is if every once in awhile a fuckin bald eagle ran into the short stops head and knocked him over to score the game winning run for opposing teams, but that doesn’t happen. There’s no odds on booting a groundball. It’s up to the players’ ABILITY to make or not make a play. When I get beat like that, so be it. It was in my control. I could have won, but I didnt perform. When I am playing someone heads up, and I have ace king, vs ace shit….Your skill doesn’t mean shit when the chips are in the middle, its up to the cards that fall.
in poker you can win with just luck (Gold, Moneymaker)
but with just skill you can’t…
I love these mororns, oh its skill its skill… what do u say when u cant even make a fucking pair for 5 hours straight???
What the fuck do you call that? And beeing beat on fucking rivers all the time? Is that fucking skill?
Poker is a fucking luck game, the fucking hand u get defines what u can do and what u cant… is that skill ??? omfg
What a dumbo – you just defeated your own argument in the last paragraph;-
“Youll never get to play a pickup game against Michael Jordan or a round of golf against Tiger, or tear up the track against Matt Kenseth,”
Of course not because they are highly skilled experts. Noone could pick up a golf club and win against a top player.
“but you can plop your buy-in down and take on Doyle Brunson or Howard Lederer.”
Yes – because there is a lot of luck in playing poker and even a beginner can beat a pro poker player.
After 5 1/2 years of this thread, how many people who have contributed, still have hopes and dreams of that big tourney win? 99% of people imo after 12 months playing all have the same skill level, so poker is 100% luck IMO, some people are lucky, some are not. And be honest 99% of us lose long term. Its gambling guys, PERIOD. Hae a nice day…
Of course it involve luck. Isn’t calling a bet with a draw gambling hoping to complete it?
I think its 30% skill 70% luck. Sure you can decide your hands pre flop in relation to table position, bets and players then react on the flop, turn river but if the luck isnt there then u lose. You can play the hand perfect and still lose. Where else do you really see that. I doubt the stats too. I counted on my poker tracker… ur meant to hit your flush draw 35% from flop to river… mine is less than 10%. Yet i see people hit theres all the time.
Today i was in a tourny $26 buy in. Was in top 25 when i was raised to 3 times the BB, i was in the BB with 66. Now the player that raised was hyper aggressive and super loose he was winning every hand no matter the cards. I decide to call to hit my 1/7 6 and hopefully cripple this joker. Well the flop comes 9s 9d 2s.. i check and he bets the pot, i decide to check raise here.. sure a tight player i may fold putting him on a real hand. He re raises me all in… if he had a 9 i dont think he bets it even if there is a flush draw. I call and he shows Qs 10h total air yet he manages to hit runner runner spade. I stayed to watch and he was beating aces with j10… just lucky.
some people are lucky and others are not.. everyone says skill will win through… im up slightly but i just dont see correct plays being rewarded.
I would say Omaha is approx. 70% luck and 30% skill… HolDUM however is 80% DUM LUCK. The more cards that are involved in the type of poker game = the more skill that is involved to a certain degree. I would even say that the amount of players involved matters allot. I like big Hold’em tables when I play it… most people though want to make it more of a game of luck and not of reading your opponents (examples of this are the popularity of smaller tables and online holDUM). I have just recently invented the next step in the derogation of poker. The game is called Texas Double DUM. Instead of getting 2 hole cards you only get 1! There is a normal burn and then a flop and then a burn and a Double turn and the final burn and the river. The best 5 out of 7 wins! This game is 95% luck. Just give it a few decades.. .it will be the poker game of choice amongst the poker “elites”.
Stu Ungar is regarded as the best poker player in history. Even he died broke. Did his luck run out or his skill run out, you be the judge.
Donk, Ungar died broke cause he was a crack head and sports bet like a nutjob.
He won WSOP’s by calling down bluff’s with 10 high.
Not to mention he like NEVER lost gin.
… Factless assumption, go you.
Stu Ugnar did not loose his money to poker. He lost all of his money to gambling such as sport betting, cocaine and other drugs. A lot of people regarded Chip Reese as the best all around poker player. Ugnar was hands down the greatest Gin player ever and best Texas Hold Em player there is. Ugnar has a photographic memory by the way. From what poker players like Doyle Brunson and Mike Sexton said Ugnar was very generous with money. People estimated Ugnar to have won at least $40mil.
You guys have to realize that most hands will never make it to showdown (meaning, the two players flip over their hands and whoever has the best one wins). Every human being has a particular level of risk aversion, meaning they are willing to risk a certain amount in a given situation in order to invest in a favorable outcome. That being said, for one to be a winning player, it is important to know when a person will call/fold/raise in a given situation, based on your read of their hand and what you think they think you have.
Based on this, you can pick the spots where you want the hands to actually go to showdown. Many books say that when this does happen, you should have a significant amount of your money invested when you are nearly certain that you have the best hand, and that it should only happen at a rate of about one per hour.
During the rest of the time during the session, you should be stealing pots based on position and reads to keep yourself afloat. This means playing selectively aggressively and building up your stack over time. With a particular style against the right group of people, you can be successful in a given series of sessions regardless of the cards.
There is actually a story of a young 16-yr old German or Danish girl that made the final table of a massive multi-table tournament card blind (meaning she couldn’t see her cards). If anyone has more info on this I would appreciate it