The people behind that also have a team writting notes and commentents in a lot of forums, blogs, etc, encouraging people to shove their U$S 50 to buy the book and telling them how fantastic is it, but its a clear fraude. One more of tons here in the internet !!!

I’m a poker player, I have been looking into Party Poker as I have heard mixed things. I created an account and deposited the minimum of $25.

I played $0.02 / $0.04NL cash tables (4 at a time) for 10,000 hands.

I found over this hand sample, I was down over 600 big bets with AK, AA was in very slight profit (11 big bets) and KK was showing a loss. I chose to never limp with AA or KK (I raised either 3.5 x BBs or twice the current pot size if limpers.)

I had many strange outcomes which I tried to look at objectively. When I play, I set mine (it’s quite a standard play where you call any pocket pair to try and hit a set – either by limping or calling a raise up to 10% of the opponents stack size. I found, a statistically significant amount of times I was getting beat by 2 outs. For example – me (33), board 355 – all in, call from AA, turn card (A) to provide a bigger full house etc…(just an example of frequent 2 outer outdraws).

After analysing the 10,000 hands – I have just about broke even on Part Poker. It is an ongoing obnomaly to out flop your opponent(s) by a significant margin (leaving them with 8% – 18% win chance), getting all of your money in then getting outdrew. Other examples where my AK hitting TJQ flops, with one opponent holding a set on the flop and getting all the money in there for the board to pair and beat my nuts flopped hand. Boards do pair, by the turn there are 9 outs for it to pair and 1 for their quads, the statistics where again statistically significant against this happening as frequently as it did by quite a large margin.

I totally agree with all of your points raised above why or why not it is or could be rigged, sadly I’m not in a position to say if Party Poker is or is not fully legitimate in it’s ethics but I did know that 10,000 hands would not PROVE 100% what people are saying.

I am sure of this, and I make this statement unreservidly as a profitable online & live poker player on other sites. Over the 10,000 hand sample played, there ARE more than an average occurance of strange 2 or 4 out outdraws when all in on the flop with the best hand.

Please take from this what you will, please feel free to shoot me down (perhaps saying 10k hands isn’t enough), I need to learn how to play properly etc…I don’t mind. I am just letting people know these key facts:

(A) I play profitable online poker and have done for over 4 years playing 5 days a week on average.

(B) I did this test, specifically low stake to not risk a meaningful amount of my bankroll. Cards dealt are cards dealt at any stake once you’re moneys in 92% favourite on the flop.

(C) I hope this is of some use or informative value to people as the 10,000 took me some time.

(D) As a resulting factor of doing this test, I won’t be playing at Party Poker with any of my money (I usually play $5 / $10NL – 4 tables). As far as what I have seen, it looks like there MAY be some truth in it – and I am not closed minded.

I didn’t find myself not believing my opponents play at the tables (I could understand them calling with sets or over cards…that’s the idea when I play poker – to get the money in and get called by a hand that I have dominated). I actually found myself dissapointed at the frequency this dominated hand would draw out by the river defying odds. My poker tracker supports a great feature called “EV” (Expected Value), exactly what is this!? (Sorry if you know this):

You go all in on the flop for $100 with QQ, AKs calls.

(This is virtually a 50 / 50 – for this example I will count it as 50% 50% for simplicity).

Your opponent hits an Ace. He wins the $200 pot.

As far as results go in money, your opponent in up $100, you are down $100.

But, 1/2 the time you’ll win that $200 pot – so your EV would be at +$100 if you lost as it should be break even but your $100 down.

The reason I go into this is my EV was through the roof over the 10,000 hands! This tells me, I should be much more up showdowning the hands I have than I was.

I hope this helps some of you make decisions on where you would like to play. I won’t suggest an alternative as I don’t want to appear bias.

I wish you all the best of luck, and please be nice to one another, provide information and work together to trust or uncover fraudulent activities within poker.

I think question is not whether PP is riged or not. Question is whether you can consistenty win there or not. If its true that only 5-10% people consistently win than what do you expect? few would admin they are among 95% of people…. and actually blaming everything else.. how funny ha??

“Game is rigged for sure”… ok i agree but only to the level you can still win if you belong to the right group of people and to the level you wouldnt notice…. please show me one player who is winning and claiming(prooving!) that its rigged…

“patterns” … there are some sure… eg. you loose with big pocket pairs often… how naive to think you cannot loose.. strange river… shit happens… if you play super tight-aggressive you win (i dont play like that its not fun and thats why i lay bad beats like you talk about here… because many people are playing for fun and calling with crapy hands)

“cash out curse” … actually this happend to me too but still dont believe its rigged this way..

“technical problems of rigged algorithm” … i can imagine software dealing you better cards (eg AA more often but that works for everybody), can not imagine software taking into account 10 people’s decisions… impossible… maybe heads up…

“sum up” … every logic says it should be rigged.. every logic say if its rigged its done way you should not care… if playing just for fun you dont mind loosing anyway, if you play proffesionaly you are winning anyway, if you try to start playing proffesionally with no success you dont have skills and blaming rigged casino but you would loose if it wasnt rigged anyway…

DID I MISS ANYTHING?

I have noticed many anomalies with both pokerstars and and PartyPoker. However, that alone is meaningless. Just because things frequently feel fishy on these sites doesn’t mean they are rigged – the random number generator might just be creating ‘odd’ hands, without any dodgy dealings going on.

Somebody who is better with numbers than I am needs to start constructing a database of hands played, and answer the following questions:

1.) In SNGs, where one player goes all in, does the all in player lose more frequently than they statistically should? Making all in players lose more frequently would speed up games

2.) How often Do the ‘big 3′ of AA, KK, and QQ go up against each other? Is this more frequently than statistics would predict? Focusing only on these 3 hands rather than all pocket pairs makes most sense, because most players will not fold AA, KK or QQ preflop, and so we can assume that if these pockets are dealt there will be a raising war culminating in an all-in race.

3.) By opening multiple new accounts, discerning whether ‘new players’ have greater luck than more experienced players.

These are the three main provable/falsifiable claims made about poker sites. If they are true, they should be fairly easily provable. In order for the variance to be noticable by players – rather than it just being our paranoia – it should show up statistically fairly fast. If anybody would be interested in actually trying this out – particularly if somebody has a detailed record of 500+ hands on a poker site – then please contact me by posting below. Cheers.

1. Human nature. CEO’s of well known financial and retail corporations right here in America (where they are supposedly “regulated” by our laws and the SEC) have proven that there is no such thing as – “I’m making enough money – no need to make more”. Martha Stewart fucked herself over bigtime over stock that was valued somewhere around $260K and yet she was worth millions. If she had just took her losses she would’ve only lost about half of her initial investment. But she broke the law by accepting insider info. Why? Greed. Tyco chairman was worth millions and also had a million dollar salary and yet was ripping the company off big time. Why? Greed. Enron – even though the CEO’s had close to million dollar annual salaries they still chose to cheat thousands upon thousands OF THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES and stockholders. Why? Greed.

Now this is only an example of the ones who were caught. We all know that this shit has been going on FOR YEARS! These guys never feel that enough is enough. If they can make more money by cheating – they will. Its human nature.

If CEO’s who have salaries of 300x to 400x the average workers salary would screw over their own employees that they see and speak to every day, what makes you think that these guys who are overseas would hesitate in screwing over the average joe whom they never have to see or speak to. Not only that, these American CEO’s robbed their employees of their retirement funds, kids college funds, etc. These online poker CEO’s are probably thinking, “look I’m only taking a few hundred dollars from Joe Blow-I’m not that bad of a person”.

2. From my own personal experience of playing at PP I can very much identify with the “predictable hands”. Its pretty bad when you can literally call out ahead of time what the turn and river will be. There are some pretty strong patterns at PP and you would have to be a fool to deny it.

3. I also can agree with the guy who said he was playing multiple tables and saw the same flops on the same tables multiple times. I hardly ever play multiple tables and in the rare 3 or 4 times that I did (and I have never played anymore than 2 games at the same time) I experienced the “identical flop on multiple tables” multiple times. You can argue – “how can you say that and you’ve only played multiple tables 3 or 4 times”. My argument is, “what are the odds that with the extremely low rate in which I played multiple tables that I would repeatedly see the same flop on the same tables?” I would say those odds are extremely extremely low. But yet it happened. To me that says one of two things. Either I am an extremely “lucky” person to hit those odds of seeing the same flop or that identical flops occur on multiple tables at a hi rate at PP.

lol

Numerous times I have found myself in a hand were the opponent makes an impossible call and somehow gets it on the river everytime.

The same thing happens to my father as he has been playing for the same amount of time as me.

This makes me think that some people have actually learned to exploit the program.

I have had someone tell me that he’s talked to people that work at party poker and they’ve shared with him that the game is designed to increase the rake somehow. I guess that’s just hearsay, and I cannot prove it but man sometimes it really is odd.

Dave